Outline · [ Standard ] · Linear+ NCP refusing to share Halloween, (Despite Court Order To Do So)

[chanel007]

I am the CP and as it turns out, Halloween and/or the weekend which celebrates Halloween if it falls on a weekday, always falls on NCP's weekend. NCP has had child the past 2 years on this holiday, and again will do so this year. Our court order actually states that the holidays not specifically spelled out are to be "shared or alternated between the parents." The order cites Halloween as a holiday.

I addressed this with NCP in a letter over the summer and he ignored me. I brought it up in a telephone conversation and he refuses to share or alternate this Holiday with me. Some people have told me that I could just keep her this weekend due to the wording in the court order. I dont want to create drama. So, I have decided to take whatever legal options are necesssary to remedy by next year. Does anybody know what that would be or have any suggestions for how to deal with this?

Also, am I within my rights if I did keep her for Halloween?

Does this course of action make the NCP look like a hostile parent...isnt there some family code that states that the parents should work together?

[Jim Reape]

Before taking legal action look at the calendar and determine how often this issue will pop up. The court generally does not look at Halloween as a holiday but you state it is specifically listed in your order.
No one can tell you that you are within your right to refuse to turn over the child without looking at the order and interpreting it. It sounds vague as there is no specified schedule and only a reference that it be "SHARED or alternated"
You have a few days left to try and work the issue out. Is this really an issue that the child cares that much about who takes them trick or treating?

[chanel007]

Before taking legal action look at the calendar and determine how often this issue will pop up.  The court generally does not look at Halloween as a holiday but you state it is specifically listed in your order.
  No one can tell you that you are within your right to refuse to turn over the child without looking at the order and interpreting it.  It sounds vague as there is no specified schedule and only a reference that it be "SHARED or alternated"
  You have a few days left to try and work the issue out.  Is this really an issue that the child cares that much about who takes them trick or treating?

This is the third year in a row that NCP has child on Halloween, which will also be an issue next year. The following years, "halloween" will fall on Monday, Tuesday, etc. (my time) but there are festivities that go on the previous weekend that I would like to enjoy with my child. It is very important to me that I be able to at least alternate this holiday, as I think its important to all parents who are interested in building loving memories. I'm not interested in creating drama, but I would like to address this. Does this require on OSC?

[Jim Reape]

If you don't reach agreement it would require an OSC to get more understandable and enforceable orders from the court.

[cincsu]

This is the third year in a row that NCP  has child on Halloween, which will also be an issue next year.  The following years, "halloween" will fall on Monday, Tuesday, etc. (my time) but there are festivities that go on the previous weekend that I would like to enjoy with my child.  It is very important to me that I be able to at least alternate this holiday, as I think its important to all parents who are interested in building loving memories.  I'm not interested in creating drama, but I would like to address this.  Does this require on OSC?

just from the perspective of the NCP....if you see when halloween falls year over year between now and when the child turns 18 add up how many fall on a weekend (when dad could have child) and how many fall during the week (when dad could not have child) and if you want even go a step further to see how many of the halloweens that fall on the weekend will be on dad's weekend.

for example, next year halloween falls on a sunday, so you would have child back in time for trick-or-treating?

that may put # of halloweens spent with each parent better into perspective. also, many halloween activities are held all through out the month and not necessarily just on the weekend before halloween.

just something to think about before initiating an OSC.....

[cincsu]

so i went back to an old post and saw your ex gets child 1st, 3rd and 5th weekend of each month and returns child to school monday mornings. assuming the weekends are defined by the date of fridays i have listed below the weekends with dad....obviously cut off the date depending on when the child will turn 18.

weekends
2009: 10/2, 10/16, 10/30 halloween and preceeding weekend with dad
2010: 10/1, 10/15, 10/29 halloween and preceeding weekend with dad
2011: 10/7, 10/22 halloween and preceeding weekend with mom
2012: 10/05, 10/19 halloween and preceeding weekend with mom
2013: 10/04, 10/18 halloween and preceeding weekend with mom
2014: 10/03, 10/17, 10/31 halloween with dad, preceeding weekend with mom
2015: 10/02, 10/16, 10/30 halloween with dad, preceeding weekend with mom
2016: 10/07, 10/21 halloween and preceeding weekend with mom
2017: 10/06, 10/20 halloween and preceeding weekend with mom
2018: 10/05, 10/19 halloween and preceeding weekend with mom

so between now and 2018 mom gets 6 of 10 halloweens and dad gets 4 of 10 halloweens, mom gets 8 of 10 preceeding weekends and dad gets 2.

yah, he gets a couple in a row but so will you. i'm not sure i understand the complaint.

[SCVLC]

[ i'm not sure i understand the complaint.

[/quote]

Seems like her complaint is that it is specified in her order...but confusing as to how to enforce.

Our court order actually states that the holidays not specifically spelled out are to be "shared or alternated between the parents." The order cites Halloween as a holiday.

So while the age chart to 18 may seem simple to you.....the reality is that either party can create "drama" on every unspecified holiday by alleging the other party had their child the preceding year.

[cincsu]

[quote=SCVLC,Oct 29 2009, 05:46 PM]
[ i'm not sure i understand the complaint.

[/quote]

Seems like her complaint is that it is specified in her order...but confusing as to how to enforce.

Our court order actually states that the holidays not specifically spelled out are to be "shared or alternated between the parents." The order cites Halloween as a holiday.

So while the age chart to 18 may seem simple to you.....the reality is that either party can create "drama" on every unspecified holiday by alleging the other party had their child the preceding year.

[/quote]

no, i get that part. but, i'm just saying if she submits an OSC to ask for halloween that the response may be that she already has a majority of them anyway. just trying to point out a different perspective on it. i know after years of going through custody litigation that sometimes it is better to keep it out of court if possible.

with the kind of order they have alternating holidays may not in reality be so easy because NCP has 1st, 3rd and 5th weekend with one week in summer....so since his parenting time always falls on a weekend except that one week in summer by default he will miss any holidays that fall within the week.

if she was making the same argument that he chose his summer week of vacation every year during the july 4 holiday then i would agree that clarification may be needed so both parents can spend july 4 with the child, but this circumstance is a little different.

another option would be to spell out all the holidays between now and when the child turns 18 and make an alternating schedule that allows each parent access to the child on the different holidays....

ie: halloween even years with mom, odd years with dad - no matter if it falls on a weekend or during the week. then, dad gets some halloweens during the week and some on the weekend and vice versa.

christmas with mom on odd years and dad on even years....etc.

[SCVLC]

Holiday schedules supersede established custodial arrangements. So she wouldn't necessarily be entitled to more Halloween days then her ex under your example, because the order states they are to share or alternate. Either parent could cause drama on any given minor holiday because of the ambiguity of the order.

[chanel007]

Holiday schedules supersede established custodial arrangements.  So she wouldn't necessarily be entitled to more Halloween days then her ex under your example, because the order states they are to share or alternate.  Either parent could cause drama on any given minor holiday because of the ambiguity of the order.

My complaint is that any and all holidays/special occasions should be shared or alternated because these are precious memories to build and each year the child changes. So its not cool that I dont get to experience trick or treating with my child at this age range. He had her the past 2 years, has her this year and will have her next year (he has her overnight on Sunday nights). Then in the following years, there are tons of Halloween parties and celebrations that take place on the weekend preceeding the official Halloween night, which is his weekend. I think clearly this is something that needs to be worked out. If he can be a reasonable adult, then an OSC wont be needed. And yes its true that either parent can create drama over the ambuity in a court order. I am not seeking to do that. I would just like to be able to have my daughter for halloween occasions sometimes. We as parents need to cooperate and allow each other that, it's both our rights. If he was Jewish (he's not) and had a special holiday that he needed, I would just give it to him and not argue and be a jerk about it. But thats me.

[cincsu]

My complaint is that any and all holidays/special occasions should be shared or alternated because these are precious memories to build and each year the child changes.  So its not cool that I dont get to experience trick or treating with my child at this age range. He had her the past 2 years, has her this year and will have her next year (he has her overnight on Sunday nights).  Then in the following years, there are tons of Halloween parties and celebrations that take place on the weekend preceeding the official Halloween night, which is his weekend.  I think clearly this is something that needs to be worked out.  If he can be a reasonable adult, then an OSC wont be needed.  And yes its true that either parent can create drama over the ambuity in a court order.  I am not seeking to do that.  I would just like to be able to have my daughter for halloween occasions sometimes.  We as parents need to cooperate and allow each other that, it's both our rights.  If he was Jewish (he's not) and had a special holiday that he needed, I would just give it to him and not argue and be a jerk about it.  But thats me.

if you alternate all the other holidays whether they fall on his weekend or not then i would agree with you....and i would also agree that you guys both need to specify that in your order. the co my dh has states which holidays are alternated and in even or odd years which parent has each holiday. it is very clear and no room for drama.

[chanel007]

if you alternate all the other holidays whether they fall on his weekend or not then i would agree with you....and i would also agree that you guys both need to specify that in your order.  the co my dh has states which holidays are alternated and in even or odd years which parent has each holiday.  it is very clear and no room for drama.

Yes, that's what I mean. I will have to file an OSC to further define the court order. But as drama - free as I will attempt to keep it, my feeling is that it will start drama on his end, because that is just how he is. It just really bums me out.

[chanel007]

Yes, that's what I mean.  I will have to file an OSC to further define the court order.  But as drama - free as I will attempt to keep it, my feeling is that it will start drama on his end, because that is just how he is.  It just really bums me out.

P.S. Yes all the other holidays are pretty much spelled out. Except for the little Monday holidays which I just let him keep her an extra day if it falls on his weekend.

If the halloween thing only happened a couple of years in a row I would let it go. I agree that you have to let the small things go so you're not living at court and miserable for all 18 years. But every year there will be an issue with this Halloween thing and thats unacceptable.